Talk:Electricity distribution

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[edit] The global view

Lack of info on European and UK systems and terminology--Light current 22:21, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I wrote most of the bit about network configuration and initially wrote cabinet substation. I changed it to cabinet transformer in the interest of global terminology. In the Australian industry with which I am familiar all installations which transform into LV are termed substations. I am not sure if this is the case elsewhere. In fact the term we use for a cabinet substation is actually a kiosk substation but I felt "cabinet" would be more global.

On another note I would like to do a lot of edits and try to make this more global. The history part needs trimming though the war of currents is relevant but it starts to wander on a US/UK centric path from there which I think can be generalised a bit more.

There is also a fair bit more required on the general concepts of distribution. Lumberjack Steve 07:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


I disagree that the article needs to be more global, it refers to US and other countries already Frmorrison 20:08, 30 August 2007 (UTC).

[edit] General

Help required with formatting !! The text needs wrapping. Tiles

It failed to wrap because the line began with a blank space. Deletion of that one blank space is all that was needed to fix the problem. 131.183.81.100 23:20 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)

Thanks Tiles 23:28 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)


Re-added some U.S. info that had been deleted, in the interest of specificity. Making the article international is great, but I think we should cover the various distribution systems separately rather than have an overgeneral article that says too little.

It is hard to get a balance, but the more detail is added the more explanation is required. For instance, you refer to "grounded" and "wye", I would use "earthed" and "star" for the same concepts. Should readers come to wikipedia for technical detail or a general overview? The article could be expanded to include sections on the distribution systems of different countries if contributors make the effort. Your changes improve the article and create an opportunity to expand and improve it further, if others take up the challenge. Tiles 20:09, 1 Oct 2003 (UTC)


I agree that a balance is hard to achieve, especially when someone deletes US usages in preference to UK or European usages (or vice- versa). Should not both sets of terms be used, along with a citation of locations for such usage? e.g Earthing (in europe & the UK) also called grounding (in the US). 11 Dec 2006.

I have removed the following: "The skin effect is the tendency of a high-frequency electric current to distribute itself in a conductor so that the current density near the surface of the conductor is greater than that at its core. This means DC power cables can be thinner than AC power cables and still carry the same electrical power. However, transforming DC to high voltages is a difficult process and this offsets the gains from material savings. Use of high voltage DC lines is only now becoming economically interesting for very large distances and with the increased availability of high-temperature superconductors."

It is not relevant to the article, which is about electricity distribution, not transmission, and it contains errors. See high voltage DC for an explanation of the advantages and disadvantages of HVDC and note that it has been used for long distance transmission since 1954. At power system frequencies skin effect is negligible. Tiles 20:09, 1 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Several things are unexplained or unlinked. What do these things mean? (Should they have articles?)

  • 2200 volts to ground
  • 2200 volts corner-grounded delta
  • 2400Y/4160 three-phase systems
  • 220Y/380
  • earthed/grounded (with respect to distribution)
  • wye/star

can anyone help? Rmhermen 20:30, Oct 1, 2003 (UTC)

This article may be too technical for a general audience.
Please help improve this article by providing more context and better explanations of technical details. See Wikipedia:Make technical articles accessible for more information on how to do this, even for articles which are inherently technical.

What is meant by 7620/13200Y? As I understand it, the "Y" refers to the voltage difference between any 2 phases, and the number without the "Y" refers to the voltage between any one phase and ground, but the article could make this clearer. 69.140.152.55 (talk) 05:29, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I would like to know at least the basics of how power is supplied to vastly varying loads, how it is switched from area to area or whatever depending on power needs, how many different generators supply many different loads over the same wires... Maybe that should belong in a different article? - Omegatron 16:40, Jun 21, 2004 (UTC)

"distribution systems were single phase and used a voltage of 2200 volts corner-grounded delta."

this seems like a contrdiction to me... perhaps someone more familiar with US systems could fix it. --Ali@gwc.org.uk 14:33, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Improvement Drive

Thomas Edison has been nominated on WP:IDRIVE. Vote for this article and help improve it to featured status. --Fenice 14:02, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Houses per transformer

The number of services per transformer is more a matter of how many services per mile (km) there are, than a question of US vs UK. 120 vs 230 is not the issue, since the 3-wire system of 120/240 gives practically the same voltage drop limitations. High density areas, with more than say 10 or 20 services per km of distribution feeder, can efficiently use a big transformer - but if you only have a few homes per km you must still have more transformers because even 230 V won't travel far without unacceptable voltage drop. --Wtshymanski 18:55, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I think a major part of this is simply different design philosophy. Many small transormers versus smaller number of larger transformers. I am unfamiliar with the US LV network. Do they run LV interconnected systems of simply run services from the transformer to the connection point of the houses?

"120 vs 230 is not the issue, since the 3-wire system of 120/240 gives practically the same voltage drop limitations.". True 120/240 split phase and 240 single ended single phase have similar volt drop limitations but 240/415 three phase and 240/480 split phase are much better. Plugwash 13:07, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Initial Definition

"Electricity distribution is the penultimate process in the delivery of electricity" This statement doesn't quite ring true. Distribution is the last link in the delivery of electricity to the customer not the second last.

I had changed this to read the last stage and it has now been changed back to penultimate. I am interested in other views on this. Traditinally there has been 3 stages of electricity delivery - Generation, transmission and distribution. Retail (in Australia at least) is a relatively new concept , introduced after the privatisation of much of the industry. Retail is simply the billing of customers and at most the retailer (in Austrlia) owns the meter. The electricity from a chunk of coal etc to the point of attachment is delivered by three distinct groups only. Lumberjack Steve 11:44, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Definitions

U.S.A. UK !AUS Grounded Earthed Grounded Wye or Y Star Star Transmission line Power line Power line Transmission tower Pylon Power Pole

This isn't right - at least for Australia. The Australian industry is different state by state and different usages are common. In Victoria we would not refer to power lines, we would say transmission lines or distribution feeders. The same for towers, basically any steel lattice structure is referred to as a tower, any wood or concrete pole type strucuture as a pole. Then there are stobie poles in South Australia which are a whole new concept.

I would like to remove the section on different definitions. It is incomplete and inaccurate. If there are any major objections let me know Lumberjack Steve 21:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the section highlighted above and it was reverted. I am assuming the revert was an error as there was another edit the contributer was concentrating on so I am deleting again. Lumberjack Steve 07:55, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Examples of HVDC transmission lines

[ There exists in Russia one long high voltage dc line.][Also in Quebec, Canada]

The US Pacific Intertie uses HVDC transmission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Intertie

also the Furnas Itaipu HVDC transmission line of Brazil http://www.abb.com/cawp/gad02181/C1256D71001E0037C1256833006CB3A4.aspx

68.216.187.22 23:33, 26 August 2006 (UTC)Julian Breidenthal, jbreid at integrity.com

Well, yes, but this article is about distribution, not transmission. The HVDC article has many more examples. --Wtshymanski 17:56, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested expansion

This article looks at the energy distribution process primarily from a technical standpoint. In business, the term 'distributor' refers to a specific type of 'middleman' business between the manufacturer and retailer or in this case, the companies that pull together the energy sources and maintain a continuous supply, etc. Since this article is linked from the business definition for distributor, I'd suggest adding a section more like film distributor and record distributor. Antonrojo 17:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Electrical Diagram

here is a sample electrical distribution layout diagram [[1]] --Billymac00 18:24, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Demand and supply matching

Hi,

I was looking to have a quick browse about power demand and supply matching information, but this seems to be lacking from this and related articles. Does anyone have a good knowledge of control required to match supply and demand, and how that impacts distribution. I wanted to know a bit more about power plants synching to the network and how the flucutation in demand is met without causing voltage fluctuations etc. Thanks User A1 14:50, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This article is nonsense

There is no such thing as a 'European system' of electricity distribution. The only common defining characteristic of electricity distribution in Moscow, Manchester and Lisbon is how utterly different the systems are. You might as well talk about the 'Northern Hemispherian' system of electricity distribution.

I get the strong impression that this article was written by someone who thinks Europe is some kind of unified cultural or political entity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.9.138.200 (talk) 13:15, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

So fix it! If you know how the systems differ in Moscow, Manchester and Lisbon, tell us about it. That's how the encyclopedia grows. We need your expertise, Mr. 86.9.138.200. --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:40, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Domestic and large-scale electricity distribution

Shouldnt there be a section on the distribution within houses aswell (the electrical wiring itself) ?

87.64.193.226 (talk) 15:48, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Plagiarism

This statement: "North American and European power distribution systems also differ in that North American systems tend to have a greater number of low-voltage, step-down transformers located close to customers' premises. For example, in the US a pole-mounted transformer in a suburban setting may supply 1-3 houses, whereas in the UK a typical urban or suburban low-voltage substation would normally be rated between 315kVA and 1000kVA (1MVA) and supply a whole neighbourhood. This is because the higher voltage used in Europe (415V vs 230V) may be carried over a greater distance with acceptable power loss. An advantage of the North American setup is that failure or maintenance on a single transformer will only affect a few customers. Advantages of the UK setup are that the transformers may be fewer, larger and more efficient, and due to diversity there need be less spare capacity in the transformers, reducing power wastage. In North American city areas with many customers per unit area, network distribution will be used, with multiple transformers and low-voltage busses interconnected over several city blocks.." is a near exact copy of: "North American and European power distribution systems also differ in that North American power distribution systems tend to have a greater number of low-voltage step-down transformers located closer to customers' premises. For example, in the US a pole-mounted transformer in a suburban area may supply only one or a very few houses or small businesses, whereas in the UK a typical urban or suburban low-voltage substation might be rated at 2MW of power and supply a whole neighborhood. This is because the higher voltage used in Europe (230V vs 120V) may be carried over a greater distance without an unacceptable power loss. An advantage of the North American setup is that failure or maintenance on a single power transformer will only affect a few customers. Advantages of the UK setup are that fewer transformers are required; larger and more efficient transformers are used, and due to diversity there need be less spare capacity in the transformers, reducing power wastage." from [2].

should it be deleted or something? Ilikefood (talk) 02:08, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Did they copy wiki, or did wiki copy them? In the latter case, delete it. In the earlier case this is a violation of the GFDL, unless the other website has attributed wiki and added GFDL licences to their page. User A1 (talk)
Looks like (but is not 100%) that they were the ones copying wiki article as of 20 may 2006, which contains the passage concerned; but the internet archive suggests that domain (3phasepower.org) started their page started at June 15 IA page. User A1 (talk) 06:34, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
I am now certain - the domain was not registered until 19th of june 2005, at which stage the article already had content on it. I have added this to Wikipedia talk:GFDL Compliance, but there currently doesn't appear to be a policy for chasing this down. User A1 (talk) 06:55, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Surely this can't be the first instance of plagiarism of Wikipedia. Are you sure there was never a policy for dealing with this? Thanks. Ilikefood (talk) 01:13, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
It's possible there is no policy, I just can't find any. In reality its a legal problem, for either wikimedia or the contributor. Maybe. IANAL. User A1 (talk) 03:06, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
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