Template talk:Philosophy topics

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[edit] List of "philosophies" which should NOT be in the template

I'm sorry it had to come to this, but this is probably for the best. Add as you wish, I can't list them all. -- infinity0 20:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

• Christian Science
• Creationism
• Theism
• Atheism
• Agnosticism
• Evolution
• Darwinism
• Transhumanism

As a general policy on what does/does not get included: Religion belongs to a religion template, pop philosophy is not yet recognized by professional philosophers as a philosophy, and Eastern Philosophy belongs to a religion template more than a philosophy template. Remember that everything with the word 'philosophy' in the name (as in Reformational philosophy, or Natural Philosophy, or Eastern Philosophy), is not necessarily a part of professional philosophy (or even a philosophy). Religions, areas of the occult, cultural movements, and political movements are often called philosophies when they are not. For example, keep in mind that before 1900 all of science was known as philosophy (instead of "science"), therefore just because Darwin was called a philosopher in the 1850's doesn't mean he is a philosopher. Lastly, philosophic "positions" do not belong on the template as "schools." Right now Determinism is on the template but only barely, since it probably fails this standard. For this reason Theism, Atheism and Agnosticism have also been removed. As a good guide for what does belong, consult the Online Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy's Unabridged Table of Contents[1].

Contents 1 List of "philosophies" which should NOT be in the template 2 Objectivism 3 I'd prefer a Portal 4 Too big? 5 Systematic POV deletion of Template:Spirituality 6 POV 7 Link spam 8 Categories 9 Clean-up 10 Categorisation 11 Template-specific goals 11.1 "Philosophies" makes the the left margin HUGE 11.2 Having six designations creates an extra line of wasted space, plus partial lines empty 11.3 Case of the disappearing topics: pipe needs to be on its own line 12 Duplicate Issues 13 TfD is merely administrative, that is, a title/tag name change, nothing more 14 TfD debate 15 Evolution 16 Schools and such 17 Does transhumanism belong here? 18 What?! Negating the dialectics? 19 Sophism 20 Reformational "philosophy" 21 Phenomenology 22 Christian Science as a school of metaphysics 23 Physicalism / Materialism 24 Space at top of the template 25 List of stuff to do 26 Ordinary Language 27 Here is what I think ought to be deleted 28 To ellipsis or not.... 29 Tabs 30 Transhumanism 31 Replaced "Eudaimonism" with "Virtue Ethics" 32 Aristotelianism? 33 Notes 34 Ayn Rand 35 objectivism consensus 36 Request for Comment: Is Ayn Rand's Objectivism a Philosophy? 36.1 Is Buridan on an anti-Rand crusade? 37 Protected 38 Marxism 39 reprotected 40 Requested edit 41 Requested Addition to Schools section 42 Kantianism 43 Arrogant template... why don't you auto-hide? 44 unprotected 45 I am Skeptical Regarding "Actual Idealism" and "Gentilianism" 46 Critical theory? 47 axiology, subjectivism 48 Philosophy of Humour?? 49 More On Objectivism 50 History Format 51 Spirituality Template v. Philosophy Template 52 New Age? Deism? 53 Nihilism/(Theistic-Atheistic) Existentialism/Absurdism continuum 54 Classic five?

[edit] Objectivism

What is the reasoning behind not including this section? As a relatively modern philosophy I understand that it doesn't have as large an impact as some of the other members of the list, but having studied Ayn Rand in several distinct university Philosophy courses I am surprised that it has been omitted.

EDIT: Never mind, I read some more stuff on the list and realize that this is a hot-topic on here. While I don't necessarily agree with the decision (in my opinion if there is this much debate, that alone should be sufficient merit) I'm not going to open an old can of worms.

I disagree, exclusion of Objectivism must be explained, because right now I can't see the reason for it, and I'm sure many neither do many other people. It would be according to editing policy of Wikipedia to give the basic explanation why Objectivism is excluded. If it is considered a pop philosophy, a link to credible source would also be appropriate. 195.182.10.22 (talk) 00:00, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I'd prefer a Portal

Why not take the template content as a starting point for Portal:Philosophy?

With using template, either it gets ridiculously large, or it's an eternal fight who and what gets included.

Pjacobi 11:05, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Too big?

I like this concept, but it seems to be too big. Should we make a template with just the different eras (i.e. Ancient, Medieval, Modern, etc.), and then provide detailed lists of philosophers on linked pages?

An alternate idea is to code the box as it is now to be hidden. Then when you click on "expand" or whatever, it will unhide it. For example, this is how the table of contents boxes work.

FranksValli 20:15, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

If we create a portal, it is also hidden by default. When you click Portal:Philosophy it becomes visibles. Also for visitors with Javascript turned off. --Pjacobi 20:37, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Systematic POV deletion of Template:Spirituality

An anonymous author (User:24.18.171.99) of Template:Philosophy topics has systematically replaced Template:Spirituality with this philosophy template on common target pages. This form of POV steamrolling won’t be tolerated. Wikipedia categories and topics form a network, not mutually exclusive territories. Please refrain from this practice in the future. In addition, replacing those templates removed without any justification or consensus would be appreciated. — Richard_RDF^talk 21:48, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

A philosophy template is more informing and objective than a spirituality template. Much of it has already been incorporated into this template anyways. Infinity0 20:13, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] POV

This template does not include any significant non-Western philosophy. There's no Eastern, South Asian, or Middle Eastern philosophy included. Perhaps this template should be moved to Template:Western philosophy. —thames 17:41, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Anyone is open to add the eastern stuff. BTW, the template has been streamlined, and the beginnings of Easternization has been added to it.  The Transhumanist    (aka 24.18.171.99) 01:12, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Link spam

Using a template to put the same external links into more than 50 articles is a severe case of link spam. --Pjacobi

They aren't spam links. They are widely recognised, good, sources of extra information, especially stanford plato. Infinity0 18:29, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Good sources for all 200 pages this templates seems to go to? Then why aren't they included there now? Are there any precedents fpr external links in navigation templates? I'd consider them de facto against policy.

Anyway. I've put the whole thing on WP:TFD fo reasons outlined there. --Pjacobi 18:44, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Infinity0. They are general resources on philosophy, created in the same spirit as the Wikipedia.  The Transhumanist    (aka 24.18.171.99) 18:49, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Infinity0, you'll have to fight him on TFD, as I don't have a member account yet. (Still getting my feet wet).  The Transhumanist    (aka 24.18.171.99) 18:50, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

You don't need a user account to participate in WP:TFD discussions. --Pjacobi 19:14, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Found the instructions at the top of the TFD page too.  The Transhumanist    (aka 24.18.171.99) 01:38, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

Well, you will have to sort out the categories. "Doctrines and Schools of Philosophy" is way too big atm, and unorganised. Also, it's vague what you mean by "concepts". IMO, idealism and materialism are concepts, not doctrines. I would organise everything, but I don't know what half of those things are. How the hell did you get them all, anyways??? Infinity0 19:00, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I moved the "Doctrines and Schools of Philosophy" section to a list article or two, with links in the template to get there. "Concepts" is now all-encompassing and is not distinct from the aformentioned (quoted) category. Whichever ism terms you think should be included can easily be added to it. I cleaned up the title bar and internalized the other links that were up there.  The Transhumanist    (aka 24.18.171.99) 01:32, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

BTW, I keyed-in every philosophy ism I could think of or find, and plugged them into the template as topic links (using Show preview)... almost all of them came up as live links! I couldn't believe my eyes. I removed the few that turned up red, like Randianism, Socraticism, etc. Wikipedia has definitely achieved critical mass.  The Transhumanist    (aka 24.18.171.99) 01:32, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Clean-up

It's cleaned up. Let me know what you think.  The Transhumanist    (aka 24.18.171.99) 01:40, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't think there should be a western philosophy nav without an eastern philosophy nav. The template is small enough for me to re-inserting the eastern references. Infinity0 17:07, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Democritus and Epicurus are ancient greek philosophers. Extropy, evolutionism and creationism are not major philosophical topics and are probably best left out. Infinity0 17:09, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

• This template was listed on templates for deletion, but there was no consensus to delete. See the log.

[edit] Categorisation

There aren't just 4 branches - different sources come up with different numbers, eg:

• [2] (5 branches)
• [3] (13 branches)

So I think putting the "philosophies of" thing into "branches" is justified.

I think your version of "Concepts" is too long and disorganised. You have stuff like "atheism" and "deduction" under the same heading. I think my version, splitting it up into "Concepts" and "Topics" is better, but maybe the "Topics" should be called something else. I didn't think "Schools" was a good word as it is too specific, and in your version you only have 6 schools.

Infinity0 19:59, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

---

It doesn't make any sense to use synonyms to categorize the concepts. We'll have to find better words, but the subdivisions of philosophy (namely: tradition, movement, school, doctrine, principle, idea, theory, system, approach) all overlap, and it is impossible to get anyone to agree on which terms belong where, while many terms belong to several. And to have all those designations would make the template far too large.

Here's a snapshot of the template, to clarify what exactly we are discussing at this point:

In the above version, the "schools" section is incomplete. It was intended as a starting point to list more or less complete philosophies or belief systems. I merely included the ones I could think of off the top of my head. Obviously, there isn't enough room to list them all, so we need to keep it limited to a representative cross-section of what is out there, including the cutting edge.

The phrase "Philosophy of" was repeated many times in an earlier version of the template. So it made sense to consolidate these to save space, which is our main concern with this template.

I agree that I haven't much of a clue as to what should be included in the concepts list, but the current list was only intended to serve as temporary suggestions until I (we) learn this subject better.

Besides, the template cannot grow much larger than this before it starts upsetting the people who tried to get rid of it already. So differentiation of the types of topics isn't required as much as refinement of the navigation aid itself. It needs to include the bare minimum of essential philosophical topics. I don't have a clue where to start in setting selection criteria for what constitutes "essential". But this should become more apparent as we progress...

Which brings us to the overall goal, of which the template is only a part (i.e., what I had in mind when I created the template): development of a linking system to:

1. Introduce newcomers to philosophy in a non-intimidating way (i.e., help them get a feel for it without subjecting them to information overload).
2. Provide a linking structure to assist in navigating the whole of philosophy (which will take more than a simple template or even a set of templates; more on this below), to help the reader find everything relevant to his research, from within the topics. Methods include imbedded links, templates, "see also" reference sections, portal links, and links to the appropriate categories.
3. Provide a comprehensive map of philosophy, external to the topics themselves, to help the reader see how everything fits together. Categorized indices (lists), specialized lists, etc. The template already hooks into these, but the best ones are incomplete. There are quite a few resources like this floating around the Wikepedia, but as of yet they are not linked together in a very useful way. Many of them are stranded resources, and I don't even know what they are, but I keep running into them, and as soon as I do, I link them into the whole structure.

If we keep waging a reversion war on this template, it will detract us from development of the rest of this project. We can nitpick it until we grow old and gray.

I've been working on the List of philosophical isms, which originated on this template by the way, and could sure use some help pasting in the definitions, and finding the isms missing from the list. That list should assist us in choosing which topics should be included as essential concepts on the Philosophy (navigation) template, and in categorizing the whole of philosophy for other parts of this system. Plus we aren't as limited on space on that list, though I think four or five lines should be the maximum for any definition.

Now, getting back to templates, this is only the first one in a series of planned templates. The idea is to link the top tier of philosophical subjects together (by virtue of their sharing the Philosophy (navigation) template), and use more specialized templates in successively lower tiers of the philosophy topics hierarchy. So, not only will the articles be linked together by templates, the system of templates will be linked together intelligibly by the articles (which should all point back up the hierarchy). However, before we start creating templates to achieve this, we need to survey what templates are already out there that are suitable for this purpose or already in use.

I'm starting to experience brain fry, so I'll turn the floor back over to you...

The Transhumanist    (aka Go for it!) 23:57, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

---

The current version has no logical structure though. "Atheism" and "Deduction" are in the same sections. A bundle of all concepts labelled under one type is going to confuse, not clarify. The previous version separates concepts from topics - how are they the same thing? Also, creationism and evolutionism really shouldn't be here. Infinity0 00:24, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Here is the other version:

I've tried to keep concepts (free will, deduction, etc) and thought-systems (topics) (atheism, nihilism) separate. Infinity0 00:41, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Creationism and evolutionism both concern the origin of the universe (if I'm not mistaken, this falls under Ontology), and as far as issues go, they don't get more philosophical than that one!  The Transhumanist    (aka Go for it!) 00:40, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

No, they bring science into it. They use very little philosophy and should be left out of a concise philosophical navigation. Infinity0 00:43, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Among other things, everything with its own page in the Wikipedia is called a "topic".

Yes, the word "topic" was the best one I could think of. But do you not agree that those two sections should be kept separate? Infinity0 00:49, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

How about renaming "topics" to "schools"? Atheism and agnosticism are schools of thought, to an extent. And at least it's better than "topic"... Infinity0 00:53, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I integrated the 2 versions. I've retained the 1st, 2nd, and 5th sections, and adopted your sections as 3 and 4, though I renamed "topics" to "systems". I understand now what you were going for, and it makes good sense.

(i don't think "phil of" should be in "branches" - too diverse for that. also, rem cosmology, 49 virtues, rhetoric (not phil) and cosmogony (not major); ren systems to philosophies - it makes space)

Translation: I separated "phil of" from branches as it looked untidy; i've kept the "traditional" branches in the branches section. I removed cosmology, 49 virtues, and rhetoric, because they were either not philosophy or have too few components of philosophy to be properly included here. I removed cosmogony as it's too minor, and renamed systems to philosophies - i don't think it's too big a gap, and it provides gap for the other headings. Infinity0 18:07, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Template-specific goals

Here are some potential goals with respect to this template. Please let me know what you think...

Size: How about a 10-line maximum (11 if you include the template title)?

Left margin: Keep it as small as possible, or eliminate it altogether. What are your thoughts on this?

Subheadings: Keep it to five or six. (each one creates blank space between subheadings which wastes a lot of precious space).

Topic selection: (don't know yet. any ideas?)

The Transhumanist    (aka Go for it!) 00:27, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Philosophies" makes the the left margin HUGE

That's a lot of wasted space in the left margin just to accomodate that one word. I suggest we revert back to "Systems".  The Transhumanist    (aka Go for it!) 23:06, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't think it's that bad, but change the word if you want. Infinity0

[edit] Having six designations creates an extra line of wasted space, plus partial lines empty

We should merge Branches and Sub-disciplines, because Branches currently wastes half a line, while Sub-disciplines wastes 2/3 of a line. That's more than a whole line of white space. We'll also pick up the whole line of space that lies between the two.  The Transhumanist    (aka Go for it!) 23:06, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

This is wasting far too much time. And all we have is a bloated template. We had it to 11 lines at about 2/3 this height.  The Transhumanist    (aka Go for it!) 23:06, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm experimenting with different formatting of the code to cut down the paddings. Wait a few mineutes, pleas. Infinity0 23:31, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Case of the disappearing topics: pipe needs to be on its own line

In your latest version, the first topic of every list disappeared!  The Transhumanist    (aka Go for it!) 23:19, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

ahh, ok i'll fix it Infinity0 23:25, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Fixed. Infinity0 23:31, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Duplicate Issues

Compare my version with Go for it's version

My version:

• Takes less space.
• Clear, separate categories. Will be easier to update and edit in the future.
• "Philosophy topics" is a more accurate description of the template than "Philosophy Quick Topic Guide". It's also shorter to type.

Go for it's version:

• Too much padding.
• Categories are not clear. The concepts section is muddled up.

Comments appreciated. Please vote in TfD:Philosophy Quick Topic Guide, because it's an unneeded duplicate of this one. Infinity0 23:28, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Template: Philosophy (navigation) VERY STRONG DELETE This template's title and tag were meant as working titles only (I should know, I created the thing), and has been obsoleted by it's replacement, the Template:Philosophy Quick Topic Guide (see below). The reason for the replacement is that the new tag is much easier to remember, as it has the same name as the template's new title.  The Transhumanist    (aka Go for it!) 23:30, 24 November 2005 (UTC) I created the template anonymously as 24.18.171.99 23:32, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Template: Philosophy Quick Topic Guide VERY STRONG KEEP - This template was designed to replace Template:Philosophy (navigation), which was a working title (I should know, I created it). Infinity0 doesn't like the new title, and therefore has instigated a deletion campaign. This template already has better article placement than the obsoleted original, and the process of replacing the old tags is nearly completed. This template's tag is much better placed, and it will take a lot of work to revert all those tags back to the inferior working title.  The Transhumanist    (aka Go for it!) 23:30, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Stop spreading your bs propaganda. We both know that the only reason you created the new template was to go behind my back in changing the template. I made changes you didn't like, so you made a new template which wasn't on my watchlist. If the new title is so good, why didn't you have it as the title when you originally created the thing? And "it's easy to remember" is your POV. Both are equally easy to remember (in fact "Phil (nav)" has two fewer words), but "Phil (nav)" is a better description of the actual template, and easier to type. "Deletion campaign"?? What campaign have I exactly planned? You're the one spreading bs POV about the template. Jeez. I've linked both to let other people have a look for themselves. Infinity0 23:49, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

How could anyone possibly go behind anyone's back on a public system like Wikipedia? Did you think I made such a move believing you would never find out? That's pretty naive of you. By the way, the thing that makes the title and tag easier to remember is that they are the same. I had trouble remembering Philosophy (navigation) in the beginning, and I was the one who created it! Another more subtle advantage to having a formalized title is ease of referring to the template, because it has more of an identity, rather than "that box labeled 'Philosophy' at the bottom of the screen".  The Transhumanist    (aka Go for it!) 09:44, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Go for it, stop adding bullshit propaganda to the TfD page. You're a dishonourable piece of shit. "sabotage" and "instigating deletion campagin" are unneeded, unbased and unsupportable accusations. The point of wikipedia is to improve an article, and if you don't like my version please say WHY, instead of being a crybaby and reverting everything to suit you. I've made compromises with you before, but now it looks like you're just not willing to listen to anything I have to say. I have shown why your points about "easy to remember title" are wrong. At least answer my above points. Infinity0 00:08, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

There's no need for name calling. I've put a lot of hours into this project, and I don't think you realize that it has a much bigger scope than this particular template. I think a lot of your topic insertions have been insightful, and I'm not really at odds with you on the content of the template so much as with the title. We need to reach a compromise: Let's adopt the new template and title, and let's keep the General, Lists, Branches/Subdisplines, and Links sections. Defer on those, and you'll have my support on the rest of the currently existing sections (from your version), including how you want to differentiate the traditions/schools/movements/theories/arguments/concepts/ideas. Do we have an agreement? (Good job on fixing the padding, by the way).  The Transhumanist    (aka Go for it!) 00:50, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

You gave the impression that you want this project to be solely yours. Why "Quick Topic Guide"? A "guide" should be flowing prose, which this is anything BUT. Your "Lists" and "General" sections should be together - I was thinking of having "General" as in pure-philosophy stuff, and "In the world" to how philosophy relates to the world. "Lists" and "General" is a nice categorisation in that it's easy for us editors to maintain, but it's less helpful to the reader than categories based on topic.

As for the portal, it will be far easier in the long run to link to this template, trust me. In this way, you don't have to edit both at once. Infinity0 16:40, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Whoa... I was worried that you two were going to just keep escalating this to arbitration, but it seems like you're regaining your cool. Just take a breather and work together on fixing it up to where you both are comfortable with it, ya know? You are both very knowledgeable about this stuff - so I'm sure the final product will be good. Just try not to write to each other in a condescending tone and everything will be honky-dorey. :) And if you really can't work out your differences, consider using the informal Mediation Cabal . Those guys are pretty chill, and always willing to help. --Michael ^(talk) 17:07, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] TfD is merely administrative, that is, a title/tag name change, nothing more

This deletion conflict isn't about content or padding (I simply didn't catch the padding improvement, and would have fixed it myself if I could figure out how, they've been added in now -- thanks Infinity!). Infinity0 and I have been engaged in an edit war on this template almost from the moment I created this template, and that war will continue to go on until he and I learn to work together. No, this conflict is about the name of the title and the tag for this template. I've asked that this template be deleted, because it has been obsoleted by template:Philosophy Quick Topic Guide. That template has essentially the same content, and Infinity0 is welcome to edit it the same as he has been editing this one. The new template has the advantage of having the title and tag the same (the tag is easier to remember that way), and gives the template an identity that is a lot easier to refer to.  The Transhumanist    (aka Go for it!) 01:58, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

To an outside observer, the conflict here seems to be more about personality than about subject matter. Take it elsewhere, boys.

I like Template: Philosophy. I voted KEEP when it was up for deletion. The only changes I suggest (I'm not going to make them, but if others agree, I hope they will make them):

1) "Deism" rather than "Theism"

2) "Ontology" moved into the preceding category

3) "Teliology" added to that category

4) Separate "aesthetics|ethics" into two categories.

Rick Norwood 13:28, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

I did 1 and 4, will do 3 some time, but Ontology is a sub-branch of metaphysics, and I don't think it should be moved. Infinity0 16:56, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Let me offer one more thought. "Template:philosophy" is in the style of other Wiki templates. A template, by definition, is already a quick topic guide -- adding that to the title is only confusing. Rick Norwood 17:36, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Gentlemen! Listen to yourselves! I think, if you go to the template history, and read over what you are saying to each other, you will be surprised at how you sound to an outside observer. Rick Norwood 00:38, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] TfD debate

This template survived a debate at TfD. The discussion can be found here. -Splash^talk 02:09, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I am glad the template survived. Now, let's discuss moving Template: Philosophy (navigation) to Template: Philosophy. The Philosophy article is undergoing extensive work, and to have a Template: Philosophy sidebar would be useful. Rick Norwood 13:41, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Evolution

Why is evolution on the list of philosophy topics? TheIncredibleEdibleOompaLoompa 10:46, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Possibly because things other than animals evolve, like ethics or political systems? Endomion 03:50, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

While that's a good attempt at an answer, the link was to Evolution which was almost entirely about biological evolution. One small section was given to "Social controversies," which is really a rather different topic than evolution itself. TheIncredibleEdibleOompaLoompa 21:43, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Evolutionism (the theory of evolution) is one of the most philosophical concepts there is! It changed the whole philosophical landscape, shifting the emphasis of philosophical thought from the metaphysical to the materialistic epistemological. It's because of the evolutionism vs creationism debate. Darwin stabbed God right in the heart with his theory of natural selection, thrusting evolutionism into the center of metaphysical discussion and bringing the whole God issue into quesion. How can God exist in the face of evolution? Did God evolve too? Doesn't religion (and God) evolve every time we come up with something new, like evolution? What if man takes control of his own evolution, and creates the posthuman? What will that do to the dogma of the theists? How will they evolve their religions to compensate for that! What about intelligent design? Did God create evolution?

And look at what evolution did for philosophy: it kicked atheism, agnosticism, and agnostic atheism into high gear. As doubting God came into vogue, we needed theories of knowledge verification to replace blind faith. Evolutionism gave a major boost to the deveopment of the Scientific Method, one of the most important products of philosophy. Now, as a basic assumption, evolutionism is an integral part of modern (analytic) philosophy and of the most promising emergent philosophies. Evolutionism helps form the foundation of several atheistic philosophical schools of thought, including Nihilism, Existentialism, Pragmatism, Humanism, Extropianism, and Transhumanism, to name but a few.

And getting back to metaphysics, if we evolved, making His being obsolete, then God gets sliced by Occam's Razor, which means that there is no soul either, right? And no afterlife. So, what we see is what we get. Which means it is up to society to determine what is morally right and wrong, for due to evolution, there is no higher (supernatural) authority to pass down commandments nor sit in judgement over us for our sins. Which means men have been doing this all along, as false spokesmen for a god that doesn't exist. But now, we won't take their word that something is right just "because it is God's will": we will want to know the reasoning behind it. As Nietzsche said, "God is dead". So, make the best of this life pal, it's the only one you've got! You'll never get out of this life alive!!! Or as Ben Franklin once said: "Dost thou love life? Then waste not time, for time is the stuff that life is made of!"  The Transhumanist    (aka Go for it!) 17:02, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Well let's see here. Wow. Your last paragraph largely confuses "evolution" with atheism. This seems to be common among both theists and atheists, but the linked article had nothing to do with souls, afterlife, morality, supernatural beings, etc. The idea that God can be eliminated by Occam's Razor is a primarily atheistic one. It might deserve it's own page, but I doubt it deserves a link on a general purpose template. Glancing at the other parts of this reply... no, religions don't "evolve" in the sense that the linked page described. The idea that humans can/should control their microevolution is called eugenics. I wouldn't be entirely against linking it. It seems that there are really only two real reasons listed here: historically evolution has been associated with/boosted some philosophies, and some philosophies depend on evolution. I still don't think either of these ideas particularly makes evolution a good topic to include on a list of philosophy topics. It seems that I'm not the only one who thinks so, since evolution was removed some time ago. Anyways, I'm not really interested in this page much anymore, I was only confused why a scientific theory was being linked from a philosophy template. TheIncredibleEdibleOompaLoompa 21:43, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I think you're mistaken about what "evolutionism" is. It's not "the theory of evolution". Evolution is the theory of evolution as well as the fact of evolution (kind of an overloaded terminology). "Evolutionism" was originally a pejorative word coined by the creationists. It's another in a long line of words with "-ism" tacked onto the end of it. --Cyde Weys 23:27, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I think an argument can be made that although Evolution began as a Scientific movement in it's early days, it has become a holistic philosophy. Evolution has become like a prism, that is, a way in which to think about a subject, instead of just a simple way to explain biological processes. Even in science, we now have schools of evolutionist physics, chemistry, geology, mechanics, etc. Much like Aristotles posterior analytics, or Plato's Socratic method, Evolution is a way of thinking as much as it is "science". --Jmarinara 04:25, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Schools and such

Maybe listing "philosophical schools" isn't a good idea. I rather like the old "concepts" sections, like "awareness, being, etc etc". Those are much more general to all of philosophy. Instead of schools there could perhaps be links to "western schools" or "list of schools", etc. Infinity0 ^talk 23:47, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Does transhumanism belong here?

It hardly belongs up there with empircism, rationalism, etc. - I wonder how many major philosophers you could find who would call themselves 'transhumanists', much less deem it a makor school. If you agree with me that it doesn't belong cluttering up ever phil page, why not delete it? I would, but I'm just not feeling very bold today ;) Thomas Ash 20:35, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Alright, change the article as you see fit, and if people like it they'll keep it :) Infinity0 ^talk 20:39, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What?! Negating the dialectics?

Of course, Dialectics (Socrates, Hegel, Marx) should be one of the schools! How could we forget!? I'll put it in the template. Probably also Dialectical materialism (or Marxist philosophy of nature) deserves a place there, but I guess there should also be some sort of limit to the size of the template. -- ActiveSelective 07:37, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I've repeatedly added it to the article the many times it was deleted. Can't believe I missed it this time. /blushes Infinity0 ^talk 18:03, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I am by no means a Hegel expert, but his entry on wikipedia lists his school as "Hegelianism" and the entry on Hegelianism seems much more like a school then what appears on the dialectics page. Next, Socrates was not a "dialectics" or whatever. If anything you might call him a Platonist. Yes, Socrates did philosophy in a dialectic but that does not make him in anyway a part of the same school of philosophy as Marx and Hegel. Now, I think you are right to say that Marx's Dialectical materialism deserves a place on the template. I think you are right to try adding a school on the template to cover the likes of Marx, Hegel, etc. I just don't think "dialectic" is their school, or a school at all. - Atfyfe

Thanks for clarifying. I might add the materialist dialectics too. My response:

We have to consider that visitors to wikipedia are not experts eiher. Very general articles like Theism, Humanism and Dialectics give the abundant semi- or non-philosophical visitors an easy entry, and help them to choose their road further into the depths of philosophy. Quality of philosophy counts, but quantity of philosophy-interested visitors does also. The title of this template is for that order well chosen: not "philosophical schools" but "philosophical topics". ActiveSelective 10:21, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe a name change into "the dialectic" (as a form of philosophical reasoning) might also help here if "dialectics" suggests too much a particular philosophical school. (although, to me, the name "the dialectic" sounds so... archaic) ActiveSelective 10:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand why it is up there if it is merely a way of reasoning. The section on the template is called "schools." I cannot really speak with much knowledge here because I am pretty ignorant about what the Continetial philosophers are up to, but in Analytic philosophy I don't see "dialectics", "dialecticism" or "the dialectic" as having a place on the template. (Atfyfe)

Ah, you're right. It was under the "schools" section. Well, replace it into a better one, but please do not remove - see for the reasons above. By the way, I do think it is quite an artificial devide, this "continental vs analytical". But even when one would hold on to it, I don't see why this template is strictly analytical. ActiveSelective 17:46, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I am not saying the template should be analytical, I am just admitting that when making edits to sections dealing with continental schools I am personally not very knowledgable. I'll leave it to you (or someone) to figure out how to represent Hegel and Marx on the template, I don't know their philosophies all that well. Until then let's just leave Dialectics up. Atfyfe

Okay. I'll take care of those in the template.

About "way of reasoning": the dialectic is a general form of reasoning, and in that way of the very same kind as Logic (under the Branches section). At the same time it is more than just reasoning: it is also a philosophy, unlike Logic. Basically, yhe big difference between them is that the logical way outputs less information then it gets as input, while with the dialectical way it is the other way round. Two basic examples:

• Logic

  input (A ^ B) v (A ^ -B) ==> A output

• Dialectic

  input S + O ==> S'O + O' output

  The Scientists are studying their Objects of study (optical lenses). In the end they become transformed S'cientists. Transformed because they now control the Objects. They fuse with them - S'O is the scientist using microscopes. Because of the fused state, they are now able to study new O'objects (bacteria), which could not have been in this study-relationship prior to optics. So you start out with scientists and lenses (and maybe bacteria), and you end up with scientists, lenses, optics, and visible bacteria.

A consequence of the difference between Logic and Dialectics: Logic cannot build a philosophy of more then just Logic - no ontology, no epistemology, no ethics. But Dialectics seem to grow larger philosophical systems, including ontology, epistemology and ethics. Dialectics is therefore often classified as a philosophy, next to being the name for the dialectical way of reasoning at its base.

One of the best reads is Richard Levin and Richard Lewontin's book "The Dialectical Biologist" in which they use Dialectics in order to explain biological processes, and debunk ideological confusion about biology. ActiveSelective 19:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sophism

Hmm...should sophism be placed anywhere on that table? I guess you can't really call it a 'school of philosophy' as much as a way of carrying out philosophical discussion, but still.Laplace's Demon 00:01, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

We used to have a section called "concepts" that included stuff like "good", "evil", "value", "being", "awareness", etc etc... I guess sophism would have been under there. But it got taken out because of space constraints. -- infinity0 00:07, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I added Sophism back in. Perhaps it will die again. But the name does name a number of philosophers (like Protagoras) who had certain defined positions in philosophy. The only real reason we might not include this school of philosophers on the template is the fact that so little is known about their school. All we really know today is the straw mans of their philosophy that Plato provided us. Today the word has another use as labling a certain (bad) way of carrying out discussion, but at one time it was a school. It is, in fact, because Plato bashed them so badly that we use the word as an insult. - Atfyfe

[edit] Reformational "philosophy"

I deleted Reformational philosophy that was added to the template because it is in no way a "philosophy".

What RP actually is:

1. a collection of arguments on the subject of religion,
2. of this collection the boundaries are set by religious dogma; in other words: the philosophy is completely subjected to religion which says "this is where I grant thee movement, but thou shall think beyond this dogmatic line",
3. the insipration for discussion is solely religious.

RP is a style within the Calvinist religion, not a philosophy. As an analogy, styles and arguments within the realm of programming ("should we use while...do...lus? or a do...until...lus?") or within psychology ("how to handle the carrot-stick-method") or within physics ("shall we solve it using Newtonian laws or the Principle of Least Action?") can neither be called a "philosophy". Within the restricted context, specialists might use the term "philosophy" as another word for a certain "style" or "method". Within that specialized restricted context, style and method might be the most abstract notion they ever use, which makes it understandable they nickname it "philosophy". In programming, psychology, and pysics, they might give names like "the C++ philosophy", "the Dr Phil philosophy", and "the convention philosophy" but this is of course way off what a genuine philosophy is.

Empiricism, dialectics, and even skepticism, all try to overstep and even break down the boundaries set analyze beyond it in order to evolve knowledge and self-evolve. A programming philosophy won't go beyond computers and a reformational philosophy won't go beyond the Calvinist God.

-- Christian Mission 09:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, 'Ref Phil' is back! Is this legit? I've never heard of it, but then again I wouldn't know anything about this school unless they contributed something mainstream. I'll hold judgement until I can do some checking around. My standard is if any of the philosophers listed on the Reformational philosophy entry have any published work in Mind, Nous, The Philosophical Quarterly, and any of the other mainstream journals. Atfyfe 02:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Phenomenology

I was wondering if phenomenology should be listed under schools? Postmoderism does not cover phenomenology, and phenomenology is certainly an important school of philosophy. It is just a thought... Thanks. -aeyn edwards14:10, 23 April 2006

I'm not sure about this, so anyone else have any input? -- infinity0 22:24, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

• I'd say phenomenology is more a methodology than a school, but I realise that might just be my impression. People such as the existentialists were influenced by his work, but did Edmund Husserl leave a wake of followers?  Regards, David Kernow 23:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

My two-cents: It is a methodology, but often methodologies are also a school. For example, I may use the phenomenological method to examine some part of the world, but that doesn't make me a phenomenologist. What would make me a phenomenologist is if I thought the phenomenal method was The End-all, Be-all of philosophy. If you think the method radically changes the philosophic landscape, and solves all or near all of the ancient philosophic questions--then you are not just using the phenomenological method, you're a phenomenologist.(Atfyfe) 20:38, 10 July 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Christian Science as a school of metaphysics

Many people confuse Christian Science, (CS, for short) which also comes under the subject of a so-called organized religion or religious denomination with Christian Science as a school of philosophy or a school of metaphysics. In fact, there have been at least two individuals who have basically taught the metaphysics of CS without the name, precisely for the purpose of not confusing the denomination with the philosophical aspects of what Mary Baker Eddy, its proponent, actually proposed. Based on the comparitive ignorance of modern-day philosophers and scholars with Eddy, I can easily understand why it might have been removed from the list of schools. So my mission will be to show why its a valid, if little-known school.

So, I'll do some homework on the topic and be back. What I'll do is compare what Eddy, the founder of Christian Science]] wrote on the subject and a discussion of it by some other sources. In 1881, she opened a school in Boston Massachusetts to teach her particular "school." So the real issue, informationally, is where her particular theory fits into an overall discussion of the larger topic. In this discussion, I am playing a massive game of "catch up" as I was originally a philosophy major in college, but haven't done much with it, so give me some time to do the research, and I'll be back. Today, I'm more comfortable with history than philosophy. Combining the two topics I've been reading a great book on the origins of the Greek schools of Philosophy. Lots of Greek in that book, and its iteresting that scholars in 1900 actually assumed that every "liberal arts" graduate be fluent in both Latin and Greek. Fortunately, I'm a historical throwback, so I can actually follow the most of the Greek while I'm much more comfortable with the Latin. So, I'm starting there and working my way forward. I'll cite that Greek Philosophy book later. Bottom line, just because few modern people know what Eddy taught, doesn't mean that she didn't have a contribution to make on the larger topic. Thanks SimonATL 01:30, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi - it would be interesting to take a look at the book(s) you're reading. I know your intentions are good, and I think I can see how how CS might fit into metaphysics, but it's just not a main school of metaphysics. This template in particular has had a rough history, since people complain it contains too much information, so for the sake of simplicity many schools of thought are already left out in favor of larger schools. I think where we should add CS is maybe an article instead of this template - for instance, List of schools of metaphysics. I'm unsure if there's already an article for that - if not, then maybe you could start it. FranksValli 04:39, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm very sorry. I've read some about CS and some of CS, and came to the conclusion this certainly should not be put into the philosophy template. Yes, it is a school but not a school of philosophy. Of course, it uses some philosophy, but it is not a philosophy itself. Quantitatively, this religion (see Christian Science) uses as much philosophy in its course as the study of French language uses Wittgenstein: very little. Must we also put French in the philosophy template? Every argument of #Reformational "philosophy" (above) is valid in the case of CS.

I have a more general warning here, since religious cases show up in here once in a while. What to do with them? Remember, religion is only one of the objects of analysis and criticism in the schools of metaphysics. There it is an object under study, not the authority over study. In religions it is the other way round. Confusing is that religion tends to name itself a 'school of metaphysics'. However, in reality, a 'school of metaphysics' is not the same as the metaphysical thingies themselves. The philosophical school of metaphysics is analysing and criticizing metaphysics (call it NPOV) while the religious school of metaphysics is professing a metaphysics (which is POV). The philosophical school of metaphysics is testing for change of metaphysics (possibly followed by changing its modes and methods) while religion resists all change (even the testing for change). You can even observe this on Wikipedia, in this template's history: users trying to add religious links into this template never have added this template to the religious page linked to. I guess, this template will not even be accepted on that page!

Three general criteria:

1. The pages linked to should be philosophical.
2. Users trying to put links into this template, should first put this template on the page concerned, and then see if it is accepted there at all. Acceptance over there is necessary (although not sufficient) before linking from here to there.
3. This template has an integrity of its own: a range of subjects, a maximum size, an order. When choosing is necessary, more important subjects are included and less important subjects are dropped.

These are natural demands put to all pages linked to, not only to religious pages. For CS this means: 1. CS is not a philosophical school of metaphysics, but a religion - 2. This template has not been accepted at the CS page - 3. even if it would fulfill criteria one and two, it is -in my view- too minor a subject.

-- ActiveSelective 10:35, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Physicalism / Materialism

It seems unnecessary that both of these are listed, but I'm not sure which one to delete. Materialism has had a much longer history within philosophy than physicalism, and many do not realize there is even a distinction between them. However, Physicalism seems to be a 'larger' school than materialism as it states that everything is physical but not necessarily matter. Or is the difference between them great enough so that they should both remain on the template?--Laplace's Demon 00:39, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I put physicalism back (as well as naturalism). I hadn't noticed this remark of yours otherwise I might not have. I guess I am just starting to wonder how many schools this template should have on it? Should we go for broke and include even closely related schools (e.g. physicalism/materialism/naturalism) or should we trim the list down to major and distinct schools? - Atfyfe (talk) 08:45, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Space at top of the template

<!-- Please do NOT remove this extra space at the top as it is needed for padding on pages -->

Suggest this space needed for padding not included in the template as at present but on the pages affected. Anyone recall particular examples, or is it most/all here?  Regards, David Kernow 12:57, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Uh, why edit 500 page when you only have to edit one? -- infinity0 21:56, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Because I suppose it's about as easy to give a bot the task as it is for a human to edit one page. I guess I'm disappointed to see a good template carrying ballast. Regards, David 00:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of stuff to do

- Bypass redirects - see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Philosophy_(navigation)&limit=500&from=0 - Template is too long. Why are there loads and loads of schools? I'm going to delete a few. -- infinity0 21:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ordinary Language

I don't see the ordinary language movement in philosophy as minor at all. Between 1930-1970, it became widely popular to try solving all philosohic problems by a close look at ordinary language. For example, traditional philosophy might ask in the abstract "What is truth?", but when we look as specific places where it is used in ordinary language, the role of the "word" truth is always very clear. If a reporter asks "Mr. President, is it true you plan to invade Iran?" instead of "Mr. President, do you plan to invade Iran?" the additional term "is it true" serves to imply that there are rumors around that he plans to invade Iran. There is no mystery as to what truth is, here what the word "true" is doing is very clear. As with this, ordinary language philosophers held that we could dissolve all philosophic problems by bringing out their use in actual language. This was a big an remains to be a huge influence on present-day philosophy, just look at the popularity of Wittgenstien or Ryle. (atfyfe 20:37, 7 July 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Here is what I think ought to be deleted

I won't delete these, but if they come under fire by someone else, here is my vote for what schools ought to be given the boot:

Advaita Vedanta · Agnosticism · Atheism · Humanism · Theism · Vedanta · Yogacara

Religious positions all belong in a template for religion, not philosophy. That is why a University has two different departments--because they are two different subjects. --Atfyfe 20:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Oooh yes that's a very good point, I guess I wasn't thinking when I kept adding those... delete away! But why delete Humanism? -- infinity0 08:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Humanism doesn't appear to be a position in philosophy. As a graduate student in philosophy the only time we come accross the term "Humanism" is studying F.C.S. Schiller, however he used the term to mean what we would today call pragmatism. I respect the idea of humanism, and I might even be willing to call myself a humanist, but I cannot see it as a philosophic position. I suspect Humanism belongs as a (normally) atheistic alternative in the realm of religion, and therefore belongs on a religious template. If anyone has ever heard of humanism being discussed in a graduate level philosophy course, I'd love to hear it. / I also removed theism because it really isn't a school of philosophy. Many philosophers (pragmatists, rationalist, empiricists, etc.) can be theist, but I fail to see it as a school. I suspect determinism falls to the same criticism. --Atfyfe 20:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Humanism in philosophy is a rejection of quantitative approaches to cultural studies. In a world where everyone is subject to rationalization, commodification, and scientific analysis, humanism is an approach to social sciences, psychology, neuro-biology, etc., which states that humanity is more than the sum of scientific observations and objective analysis. The human component adds all forms of mystery to baffle scientists, therefore humanism rejects the scientific perspective in favour of a qualitative approach, which allows for the expression of human experience and emotion. This is the philosophical approach behind humanism, religion isnt even a part of it, humanism simply allows for the existence of a soul and of God, while many empirical disciplines would completely deny this based on lack of evidence; a humanist would simply say, 'that is my opinion.' Therefore I would not remove this from the template, particularly as this is a branch of philosophy from which many social sciences derive. Please read Talk:Humanism. SCmurky 08:18, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it is a philosophy. Humanism is the generalization of the "homo mensura axioma" of Protagoras of Abdera (Ancient Greek sophist) meaning "humanity is the measure for all things". In humanisms, humans are put at the centre (without necessarily denying gods, ideal principles of harmony, or materialist principles like atoms - it just doesn't put any of these at the centre of philosophy). So humanisms tend to be social philosophies: humans live collectively and at the same time they are individuals. They are dualist: partly subjective since the human point of view is chosen, partly objective since the human and the human society do materially exist. One could say that for example Marxism is "a humanism" (but not that Marxism is Humanism).

But I disagree with SCmurky. Humanism does allow quantitative and scientific research. It is not just subjectivism or humanitarianism, even though some Humanists tend to over-emphasize the subjective side. In the 17th century it was reborn as a reaction against religion and it did stimulate more scientific perspectives other than the usual revelation, official believes and superstition. Today Humanism might criticize the lack of human perspectives in the materialist sciences and, even more so, the inhumain economical abuse of sciences, but it does not oppose science as such.

For all this, I say: leave humanism in the template. ActiveSelective 13:15, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I understand what you both want the Humanist school in philosophy to be, but I just don't see Humanism as an actually existing school in philosophy departments and journals. I should admit that I am only aware of Analytic philosophy departments, and so Humanism might be a large school in Continental philosophy, but from my reading of its entry that doesn't seem likely. Various philosophers have used the term "Humanism" now an again, but it has never gained usage. Schiller used the term "Humanism" but was then grouped as a "Pragmatist", I believe Sarte used the term humanism, be he is grouped as an Existentialist. Protagoras is grouped as a Relativist, or occasionally a pragmatist. If you look at the unabridged table of contents for the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, there is an entry for humanism but not as a philosophic school. / Let me just say, I do not mean to denigrate Humanism. I even buy ‘Free Inquiry’ magazine now and again. However, it is no more a school of philosophy than Objectivism. If you read the objections made against Objectivism under the "Academic Philosophy" section of that entry, similar things could all be said about Humanism. Humanism is a political, religious and social force--but it has no recognition inside the philosophic community. If you think Humanism is a philosophic school, find where it appears in an Encyclopedia of Philosophy. The three major philosophic encyclopedias are the Stanford, the Edwards, and the Routladge. I also suspect if you ask a philosophy professor if they considered “Humanism” a philosophic school belonging on a list with “Positivism”, “Pragmatism”, “Rationalism” ect. that 95% of them would say it doesn’t belong. Perhaps all of them. (Again I know nothing of what in the world Continental philosophy is up to these days, so my bet only applies to analytic professors). Heck, the dang entry for Humanism has a logo, what philosophic school has a logo? Humanism is clearly directed towards the common man and society, not towards professional philosophers. – User:Atfyfe

Okay. So I followed your advice and did look around. You know what? You got me convinced. Meaning, I think it does not necessarily need to stay, nor necessarily need to go. ActiveSelective 19:28, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

In comparison with the topics you mention, I would have to say that Humanism is distinct from each of them. Existentialism appears to share a majority of qualities with humanism, even accepting theistic, atheistic, and agnostic existentialists. I feel that the Humanist article is poorly written, with too much emphasis on religeous perspectives, in time I will seek to change this. My main argument for the retention of Humanism is its influence on social sciences, psychology, and neural-biology, in its recognition of the limitations of quantitative/scientific analysis, in that you cannot define a human soul (bad example perhaps?) as a synaptic process. However I feel to some extent that existentialism trumps humanism. SCmurky 00:56, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Atfyfe did not say that Existentialism is Humanism, he said that one instance of the word being used in the history of philosophy was being applied to Existentialism, Pragmatism, and Relativism. Ultimately, all of those school were given the names they have today and Humanism now fails to name any philosophic school. I do not think the Humanism article is wrong for stressing the political and religious aspects of Humanism, I think you are incorrect to think that Humanism is something other than that. From my own experience as a philosophy student at the University of Texas at Austin, the only time I have ever heard the term used was to refer to the Renaissance pop-philosophers like Voltaire and Diderot. Mr. Wright 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Religious perspectives are present with Existentialist philosophy as well, however they are not considered a determinent category within this field; that is the case with humanism as well. Humanism does not depend on the presence, abscence, or even an individuals identification as such. I am not a philosophy major, but I am aware of the varied philosophical perspectives that are present within these fields; humanism is one of these, environmental determinism, positivism, etc, are some more. I would say however, that while humanism shares much in common with existentalist thought, it seems to be the application of a combination of different philosophies. SCmurky 01:57, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] To ellipsis or not....

ATF: I see that David Kernow has added an ellipsis to the "Philosophy of" section of the template. I don't think that strikes me as a good addition. However, it's a pretty minor point. Plus, maybe it is just me. How does the rest of you feel about the ellipsis? - Atfyfe

• I'm not wholly convinced by it either, but on the other hand I'm not convinced by the seemingly truncated feel of "Philosophy of". Revert if you/other folk wish; as you indicate, it's only cosmetic. If so, maybe add a   to the "of" to steer it away from the edges of the columns. (I suppose I was finally niggled into action having seen this template again recently!)  Regards, David Kernow 19:28, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tabs

This is beyond my programming ability, but it would be nice if we could add tabs to the philosophy navigation template. That way someone can click on a "positions" tab and we can have a comprehensive list of philosophic posiions (e.g. determinism, monism, theism, etc.). Right now if we added positions to the template it would become way to large. Just throwing the idea out there if anyone knows how to take it to fruition. Atfyfe

[edit] Transhumanism

I've added Transhumanism to the list of philosophies, unless anyone has any objections? The Fading Light 15:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I quote, "Transhumanism (sometimes abbreviated >H or H+) is an international intellectual and cultural movement" but it is not a philosophical school in professional philosophy. Not every cultural movement (even when it is an intellectual movement) is a professional philosophy. I don't mean to disrespect transhumanism, I just do not think it is properly typed as a philosophy. -Atfyfe 08:05, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Replaced "Eudaimonism" with "Virtue Ethics"

I think "Eudaimonism" was a good addition, and it brough my attention to the disgraceful fact that virtue ethics was yet to be included on this template. However, once we have added virtue ethics, do you think eudaimonism still deserves a seperate listing? Might someone not reach articles on eudaimonism through the article on virtue ethics?

For those not aware of virtue ethics, it now considered the third major area of ethics (against Kantian deontology and Millian consequentialism). It was originally put forth by Aristotle, but only recently made a huge comeback in the 1950's thanks to GEM Anscombe (then later Foot, McDowell). -Atfyfe 08:14, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

• In fact, I see utilitarianism up there (i.e. consequentialism), but deontology isn't listed! Ack! We have really neglected the major ethical schools. -Atfyfe 08:17, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aristotelianism?

I don't know if Aristotelianism ought to be listed as a school. Philosophers today certainly say "I am an Aristotelian" but that usually means they are a Virtue Ethicist (which is already on the list). I don't think there is a group of philosophers who say "I am an Aristotelian" and mean they are a part of a school of philosophy defending most (or all) of Aristotle's positions. Except for in ancient greece where one might have said "I am an Aristotelian" in opposition to "I am a Platonist" does it seem to make sense to count "Aristotelianism" as a school. Same goes for "Kantianism". Most people who say that mean that they are a "Deontologist" in ethics. However, I think there is more of an argument for "Kantianism" or "Neo-Kantianism" than there is for "Aristotelianism". What do people think? - Atfyfe 00:20, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notes

[edit] Ayn Rand

The eternal debate on this template is if Ayn Rand's Objectivism belongs here. Below is the text from the entry on Objectivism, which I think shows why Rand does not belong on the template. Here are some highlights